Oh yeah – I forgot – She’s a Narcissist

Every now and then, you fall for it.  You think you live in a somewhat normal world.  You think certainly logical things will happen.  But a narcissist will never cease to find ways to surprise you.  If you are choosing to stay like me, you’ll get those reminders from time to time.

Yesterday, after several failed days at working in time for sex, we sort of reached that point where she accepted that it had been long enough and we needed to make it happen.  The kids were all out in different places, although one was coming home soon.  I commented that I was hoping we’d have time for sex while the house was empty (hint – don’t add things like, “and you’re in the mood,” or, “and you’re still awake/sober.”)

She replied, “Well, we could try real quick.”

One of the top rules is not to question a comment like that.  It’s like getting sleep when you have a new baby.  Take it, no matter how long it might last.  So we darted upstairs.

I’m pretty giving when it comes to sex, and I knew our time might be limited.  I decided to start just by focusing on her.  As it turns out, we had 30-40 minutes before anyone got home, and so she had a good long time of attention focused on her.  Not to get too graphic, but multiple orgasms, and she was reluctant to move away even as the door downstairs was opening (normally she would jump up and run away).

I commented that it wouldn’t take long to finish my part of the deal when we had a little more quiet time, and she seemed to reply in good spirits that we would do that.  It’s not unusual to have to break and come back to it.  And I think all adults realize that once you’re in the middle of a sexual encounter, stopping in the middle requires you to finish the job at some point, or you will be insane with sexual thoughts until you reach release.

So we get to the evening, and as soon as the last kid is asleep, I am at her side where she is watching TV.  Her show ends at a reasonable hour and the news comes on.  She always wants to see the news.  I mention that it would be a good time to finish what we started, and we could even do it in a way that allows her to watch the weather.  This, too, is not unusual.

Instead, she starts acting disgusted that I would think of that rather than getting more sleep.  I tell her it’s really not very late, and we have plenty of time.  She acts even more disgusted, then gives a “if you have to” sort of indication.  Now, I know I mentioned there is a rule about taking advantage of every window you get, but I’m not into having sex with someone who is that disgusted with the idea.  I’ve done a lot around the house, with the kids, taking care of her needs, and carved out reasonable time for sex we had earlier agreed upon.  Nothing changed, and I wasn’t wimpy and begging for it.  No reason for her behavior.  I told her that I didn’t want sex with her if she was disgusted by the idea, and went to bed.

That may have upset her and kept her up late.  That may have made her feel rejected.  Or she might have been happy that it worked out the way she wanted.  I don’t care.  I’m laughing at myself for setting an expectation that I would get my fair turn.  Oh yeah – that’s right – she’s a narcissist!

It does give a good foundation for me to mention that our sex life is lacking.  Not to beg her for sex – but to tell her that I’ll need to find sexual release more often.  I’m working on the exact sentiment (not the wording – that always gets changed in the midst of an actual conversation).  But whether to tell her I’d like for her to be part of it but it’s her choice.  Or whether to explain that she needs to step it up.  If pressed for consequences, I’ll either need to say that I’ll seek it elsewhere, go to a strip club, take long hot showers and lather up, or maybe just let my penis to the driving.  Yes, I need to settle on a sentiment.  I’m not here to be secretive, so I just need to decide what my statement is and what consequences I’ll pursue.

Any thoughts?

Am I accepting less than I am worth?

Got this question from VM over at the afternarc blog – looks like a good blog, I’ve started reading more of it.  It seemed like a worthwhile discussion to copy over to a post, so here goes:

Hi CWN,
I have had a look around your blog & I understand what you say. I have left my Narc, it really wasn’t my choice more discarded. I am curious tho do you love her? So many of the posts say that you stay because of your children. (I also have 3). Do you think when your children are older you may reassess & strive for a relationship filled with actual love rather than an acceptance of less than you are worth.
VM

Interesting question, VM. Especially the part about accepting less than I am worth. There’s a couple main parts to the answer.

First, yes, we are still together. I’ve spent a lot of time going further on the main ideas I’ve put down in this blog. I am very much into continuing to develop myself and the family. Instead of trying to follow her wants and desires, I spend more time setting my own course and letting the kids know my own opinions on how proud I am and my continuing expectations. My relationship with the kids is improved, even though I was already the one they would come to when she was wigging out.

I think the reason I was able to stay is because my N still recognizes some social limits. She seems to be aware that at some point people can see her as a manipulator, or bully, or screamer, or whatever. Every now and then she explodes on someone, but seems aware of it and spends the next few days trying to be seen as compassionate and giving in order to boost her image. It’s good to be around and to identify some of the kids’ needs at those times! But even in the normal times, she has some limits to how outrageous she will act.

Part of me wishes she didn’t have those limits. It seems like it would be so easy to leave and get the kids in a safer situation if she had no limits. But I know that’s not what I want. I’ve read enough about narcissists with no limits to know it’s a worse situation. Still, what it means for me is that I can see her restrain herself at times. But I can see a little bit of craziness in just about everyone, and I can see her as worse, but not completely off the deep end. That’s what makes me stay – I figure I’m just adapting to behavior that is worse than most, but still within the realm of what I can deal with.

Maybe that’s rationalization, but it seems to be the better solution than splitting up the family. I focus more on myself. As long as I’m able to do the things I enjoy and can continue to get better at not having to defend myself to her, then I will view it as workable.

So I’ve already touched a bit on the second part. Am I accepting less than I am worth? I look at a 50% divorce statistic in the US and figure that people are right when they say marriage is hard work, and the puppy love emotions go away and what you are left with is a decision to work with this person or call it quits.

So I figure, yes, I went through that too. And I have gone through more of that fall from strong emotions than others. In fact, maybe completely away from it. So maybe I don’t love her. But I overanalyze things, and I’m not really sure what love is. I can tell you that in my daydreams (I dream a lot), I see myself dying to save my kids. No question. But if I had to do the same for my wife, I would likely not. If a bus is coming at her, and I could push her out of the way but get run over in the process, I would opt to just yell for her to get out of the way.

Am I accepting less than what I deserve? Maybe. But I’m taking my own happiness into my own hands. I’m not going to dump her and then go rely on someone else. It’s up to me to be happy, and I’m doing a pretty good job of it. Sure, I have to deal with her, but I’ve got a pretty good routine to take care of that.

So in my view, I’ve just realized that it’s not up to her to determine my worth. She thinks everyone falls short in adoring her appropriately, so why bother seeking her approval? My worth comes from my own satisfaction that I’m doing things right. I’m always learning. I always have room to improve. But I’m much better than I was when I was seeking approval from her.

Make No Apologies

One mistake that is easy to make is this:  By spending time learning how to manage your time in a relationship with a narcissist, you are focusing attention on the narcissist.

You can twist almost anything you do in this relationship to be about the narcissist.  It is important, though, that you are comfortable in your own mind that you are focusing on how to live your own life, or raising your kids, or managing your business – and not focusing on your narcissist.

An example – say I want to go to the weekly volleyball league at the local pub.  I like volleyball, so this is of interest to me.  In the past, though, I knew that my wife’s hatred of volleyball would be an issue, so I avoided going.

No more.  I joined a league, and am focusing on doing things to make myself happy.  I may miss a couple events with my wife’s friends, in fact.  If I’m not careful, I can make this about her.  I can spend time working to compensate for doing something fun, and carefully plan through how I am going to create the time on the calendar.  If I spend too much effort on these things, I’ve made it about her.

That’s not my obligation.  We are raising kids together, so I have an obligation to make sure we are getting the kids to the right places and getting homework done.  I have an obligation to make sure my wife knows I am going, so that she doesn’t make contradictory plans or fix a meal that I am missing.  But beyond that, I have the right to go enjoy myself.  I know she’ll make comments about how hard she has to work as I walk out the door for fun-time, but she’ll do that even though my fun-time is just a short time each week.  She’ll goof off all day just so she can make a point of doing her lone chore while I’m off to have a good time.  I’ve certainly earned the time and managed the calendar, so I can walk away without guilt and without having to respond to her criticisms.

If your are comfortable that you are putting in a good effort, and the kids are taken care of, then you should absolutely be doing something for yourself.  Your narcissist isn’t going to do it for you.  You kids may be great, but can’t understand enough to plan down time for you.  It’s up to you.  Do it!

Living through the children

I feel like a tweener – I’m going to start this post with a big “OMG!”

One of my kids is going through tryouts for the same sport my spouse played in high school.  The same team, as a matter of fact.  I’ve always seen that my narcissist’s sports were the most important to her.  But this is ab-so-lutely-freakin-ridulous.

About every 4 minutes, she panics that we are doing the wrong thing to prepare the kid for tryouts, or that we did the wrong thing 18 months ago, or that we will do the wrong thing tomorrow, or that we screwed up by her talking about the alternatives of what might happen if the kid doesn’t make the team.

I may be too much on the side of not fretting over what we did in the past, and simply saying, “Here’s what we’ve learned up to this point, and here’s what we should do going forward.”

But I cannot take the constant obsession over my spouses former sports.  I have to clarify that there is just a little talk about other sports that our other kids are involved in.  But when it comes to my spouse’s sports, it is an obsession.

My solutions have ranged from listening until she is distracted, to arguing the points of her diatribe, to changing the discussion to some other topic.  I’ve thought that I am having troubles controlling the situation and keeping her from obsessing.

But I realize that it’s all normal.  I can’t keep her from obsessing and reliving her life through her children.  That’s how a narcissist projects.  So I am focusing on shielding the kids from too much of it, and trying to let her run her course with minimal collateral damage.

I think of my spouse’s narcissism as a virus.  It has to run its course, and my goal is to redirect, isolate, and time the outbursts as best I can to minimize the impact to the children.

To paraphrase a favorite kid’s movie, it’s my lot in life.  It’s not a lot, but it’s a life!

Ha!  okay – back to me.  Time to do my own thing.  If I spend my time obsessing about my narcissist’s reactions, I’ll lose myself.

And hey, I just logged back on and saw some personal requests in my comments.  I do this anonymously, so I’ll figure out the best way to respond.  Thanks for dropping by.

Learn from your Kids

Everyone agrees that it does not benefit children to have to watch their parents fight.  Oh – wait – my wife tells me that  it’s good instruction for them to see how to understand how to resolve conflict.  I just can’t see the benefit of having the kids watch us lose control of our emotions, drag in insults that are meant to hurt, and shut out all reasonable debate.  Sure, I can understand the benefit of seeing a discussion being resolved.  But my narcissist fights dirty and refuses to acknowledge differing opinions.  So to put the argument in front of kids means that they either see a stupid fight, or they see me being manipulated because I refuse to act the same way as her.

Still, if you are choosing to stay in the relationship, you are going to have confrontations that are in front of the kids – even if just the start of an argument.  Staying in control of your emotions while sticking to your good decisions is important.  And your kids will do a good job of telling you if you are succeeding at that.

Every now and then, my son will tell us parents that we have stupid fights.  For example, I came in to sit down for a few minutes to check in with the kids.  My wife was in the other room when I came in, so I sat down next to the boys facing the baseball game on the TV.  And from the other room, I hear, “I was sitting there.  You can’t take my seat because I’m going to be back in there to sit down.”

What was the best response?  Perhaps not mine, because I think I have a tendency to address questions head-on, rather than figuring out what other factors are at play.  I responded to the issue of me sitting in the chair by explaining that I sat in what appeared to be an empty chair, and I was only staying for a minute so that she could have it as soon as she came back.

I guess that puts me on the defensive.  My son explained, “You guys have stupid fights.”  I had no response, because I agree.

So the idea is to take a lesson from my son.  When a nonsensical confrontation gets thrown in my face, I have to be sure not to give any credence to the emotions being thrown at me.  It’s not easy to do.  But, thinking back on it, my response should have been, “I’m just keeping it warm for you until you get back.”  That way I’m not creating a battle over the chair, and I’m not giving any legitimacy to her anger.  If she were to respond with more anger, even she would see that she is painting herself as the antagonist.

And that would go against the false image she has of herself.

So I’ll try to cut back on the stupid fights.  Lesson learned from my son.  Wish me luck!

CWN

Don’t go to bed angry

You’ve heard the normal advice – experts tell you to talk through your differences and don’t go to bed angry.  But you’ve learned by now that attempting to have a conversation with your narcissist means that you will have to listen to their point of view until you are tired enough to give up and go to bed.  All that does is make you angry on a different level.  If you made your point the first time (the argument, the rant, whatever it was) and then left well-enough alone, you are fine.  Your N will likely think they won the fight, but will have moved on without even knowing that you are holding onto the anger.

So the advice switches a bit.  Don’t rehash the problem.  Your N doesn’t understand that it’s a problem, and you’ll just create more frustration for yourself.  And I’m not suggesting that you forgive your N or try to see things from her angle.  You know her angle is warped.  But the frustration you are holding onto at this point is yours and yours alone.  Remember that you decided to stay in this situation for whatever reason (kids? money?).  You know your N is going to act like this.  So move on.  Remember the things that matter, and shift your attention there.

So don’t go to bed angry.  Go to bed having moved on.  Maybe you just reconfirmed that your N is a self-absorbed nut.  Okay, check.  Now go to bed.

And since she’s moved on, and you are always horny, go ahead and have sex.  Don’t think it will give her justification that you revolve around her.  She will come up with that justification anyway.  But think about it – what’s the best situation you painted for yourself?  You are in the relationship for one main reason (kids?).  You know you have to coexist with your N.  Now what else do you want?  A social life?  Sex?  Step up and take it then.

If you want some sort of behavioral modification for your N, give her the type of sex she likes when she behaved well.  That generally means minimal work for her and gazing into her face.  If she’s misbehaved, do something different.  Don’t cross “the line” and do freaky things that will make her want to call the authorities.  In my case, she would prefer finishing in the basic missionary position every time.  So I reward with that at times, and finish in various other positions most of the time (she’s usually misbehaving, plus I like the variety).

Does that all sound mischievous?  Remember, what I basically said was to end the fight, release the anger, consummate the relationship.  Who knows, you might end up being somewhat content with your situation, even though you have to coexist with a narcissist.  Not that your creating any sort of real bond with your N, but you are creating your own happiness and a much more workable situation.

Traits – Social Chameleon

Here’s a trait that might come up and bite you in the butt – a narcissist is very charming when meeting new people, and can find a way to fit into almost any situation.

Remember, a narcissist by definition is reacting to the current situation to find a way to fit it into her false self or image.  And her image of herself is probably pretty high, so she will laugh and tell stories that all seem to make her a star attraction.

Then, as soon as you go with her to a different social setting, her gears kick into action and she finds a way to be the center of attention again.  Not only is it interesting to watch, but it’s great fun!

You’ll feel like you are climbing up the social ladder quickly, and the initial signs of stress in the relationship will feel like necessary evils for someone as popular as her.

But the thrill will become replaced with more of the tell-tale signs.  The groups that were so anxious to see her will start to find ways to avoid her.  You’ll find out about previous groups of friends that are no longer in the picture.  She will explain to you how manipulative they were, which is why she doesn’t see them anymore (projection).

And then you will realize that you are taking the blame for many of the messes she is causing.  You may even take that blame, trying to be loving and supportive.  That won’t help you at all.

If you come to the realization that she is a narcissist and you decide to stay (kids, religion, etc.), then you are right back to the whole point of this blog.  You are right into the steps you need to take in order to save yourself while you stay.

If you move on, look for someone with more consistency and a clear view of who they are.  I’m staying, so I can’t tell you too much about how to identify the right person in the first place.  But if you are in that situation, spend some time and effort in advance – it will save you a world of pain compared to those of us who are trying to manage the situation only after getting in neck-deep.

Best of luck!

CWN

Don’t Throw the Babe Out with the Bathwater

There are many factors that went into your initial decision to choose your spouse.

• Physical Attraction
• Humor
• Religion/Views on Life
• Views on Children
• Fun
• Many more

Now, you have realized the narcissistic behaviors and realize that you need to separate yourself from them.  Sure, you’ll spend some time kicking yourself about not realizing this in the first place, but then you need to redefine your relationship and move on.

Trust me, it will take continuous work to be able to live your life without being sucked into the drama your N can cook up.  It might seem like the best thing to do is to completely isolate yourself from her.  Certainly, that is often the easiest way to avoid the pitfalls.

At the same time, doing so means you are missing out on some parts of your situation that are salvageable.  Just looking at the list above, I could say that narcissism has tainted our common Views on Life, as well as some of the Fun and Humor aspects of our relationship.  But, we still both want our children to be happy and successful, and we are both still physically attractive (yes, go ahead and count yourself in that category – or work to get yourself there!).

So while I have no interest in a conversation about how her family is secretly plotting to undermine her position as the perfect parent, I still am a sexual creature, and so are you.  Throw her onto the bed and ravage her.  If your N is like mine, you might need to put her into various positions that interest you, and then express your pleasure.

There is absolutely no need to abandon all of your needs from a relationship.  And if you are trying to raise healthy children, you probably aren’t going to go out to dinner with other women on dates.  You’ll need to go places with your N to get nice meals.

If you cannot control the conversation, yet, go with other people who are more apt to steer the conversation.  Over time, you need to learn to control the conversation to steer away from narcissistic pitfalls.

Plus, if you were to completely isolate yourself, your N would see the relationship as entirely negative, and react with entirely negative sentiments.  She is still capable of sensing her environment and reacting accordingly.  If she sees dinner and a sports game as something that is enjoyable (i.e. you are not emotionally vacant), she can start reacting well to those events.  After all, she wants to be someone who has fun – it fits with her image.  And if you take control of your sexual relationship to get what you want, she will see this as fulfilling her desire to be an attractive, sexual empress.  I have no problem with helping her maintain that part of her false self.

So be sure to learn how to avoid narcissistic tendencies or steer around them when they pop up.  But don’t throw the babe out with the bathwater – there are still some desirable aspects of this person that you have every right to enjoy.

Holidays with a Narcissist

Having just been through Thanksgiving and now heading toward Christmas (or whatever flavor of holiday you prefer), I was reminded that celebrating the holidays can be a particularly trying ordeal.

Remember, a narcissist is trying to maintain an image of herself in her mind.  She is always working to keep that image or false self in tact, and reacting when the false self is threatened/challenged/questioned.

Like all of us, the image we have of the holidays is even stronger.  I know that as Christmas comes around, I try to recreate certain elements of Christmases gone by.  I have my favorite egg nog, a special ornament, and so on.  If the holidays create a stronger impression on me and you, imagine the impact they have on your N.

And, like most things with a narcissist, you are not going to be able to live up to all of her expectations.  That should not be your goal.

Everyone in your family is entitled to having some of their most important traditions upheld.  If your daughter wants to go see a certain light show above all else, it should probably happen.  Your N has some key traditions (with her family, events to go to) that should make the schedule.  You have some traditions that are also important.

While you do these things, point out that you are making the effort to do them.  Say, “This is Mommy’s favorite part of Christmas,” or, “I’m glad we’re getting to do what little Suzie really wanted to do.”  You’ll be reinforcing that you are paying attention to everyone’s wishes.

Sooner or later, something you are doing will conflict with the view your N has of Christmas, and she’ll get mad.  You can point out that everyone has top wishes, and it’s good to be able to work them all in.  Then let her blow off.  Leave her alone, or whatever works for you.  But don’t change your plans.  If you truly believe that each person should get something special out of the holidays, then stick to it.

You can’t make it through without hitting on something your N doesn’t like.  But you can go ahead and let everyone see that you are focusing on everyone’s happiness before it even starts, and everyone can rally around that cause.

Time to have a cup of my traditional egg nog,

CWN

Hot Sex Without Love

So you’ve made the decision to stay with a narcissist.  You’ve decided to follow the steps and reassess your relationship, understand your narcissist, and make your plan for success.  You may as well make the best of a bad situation, even though you’ve already accepted that this relationship is not based on love.

You are bound to have disagreements with your N.  There are likely times when things are quiet, if not bordering on pleasant. If the environment is full of constant fighting, I can’t imagine the best decision is to stay.  I won’t impose my judgement on that situation.  Let’s just say that more often than not, my N is distracted by her own mind and isn’t fighting with me.

And if you are reading this, I am going to assume you are human.  Therefore, you have sexual urges.  You could always take care of those on your own, and you have every right to do so and avoid the contact with your N.  But then again, sex with another human is a good time.  In my case, I refuse to cheat, possibly creating the circumstance where my kids would find out and seek an explanation.  Nevermind my wife’s choices in that matter – I will not do that to my kids.

So why not have sex.  Granted, there will be times when your N views sex as a distraction to something important she is doing to maintain her image.  Other times, though, you have two factors in your favor

1 – Your N is human (maybe not 100%, but the sexual needs are likely there)

2 – Your N probably views being sexually healthy as part of her/his image

Like many people walking on eggshells and trying to avoid the multitude of narcissistic hot buttons, I became fairly routine and plain vanilla in sex, so as not to upset her.  She likes a more passive role where I pay attention to her needs.  Imagine that.

Make the decision and be done with that.  Tell her/him what you want him to do.  Do it more often.  Do it whenever you want – giving some notice if you are imposing on schedules.  I’ve done sexual things with my wife in the last couple months that we never did, even when we were young party animals.

Likely, you’ve not exerted yourself as a dominant figure.  That’s what narcissists create in you.  But you have the power to cower or step forward.  So step forward and tell your wife that you are going to massage her feet while you perform oral until she comes, and then she is going to let you explode in her mouth.  If she is hesitant, tell her she can give you a lap dance with a happy ending first, and that will result in less for her to taste when it’s her turn for oral.  And if she fights, then fight.  She needs to understand that you are resolute, and you are giving her the opportunity to be the partner in this dance.

You never know – this may result in a relationship that is worth keeping even after the kids are grown-up.  Step up and set your own expectations.  You may find that your N is less skilled at controlling you when you are firm (um, no pun intended).  Then you can get some of the things you want out of the relationship.

But don’t mistake it for love.  And don’t think she’s really giving you something above and beyond what you deserve.  It is expected that partners in a couple will give each other sex, so don’t let it become something she uses to manipulate.  If she denies you, just disappear for the night.  Let her decide if she wants to be there next time.

Tip for tonight – Get the kids to bed on time, then ask if she wants to have her favorite cocktail before you 69 to orgasm or after.  If she says before, then hurry up so she can have that drink!  If after, go ahead and fix it but bring it with you to the bedroom.  Rub her shoulders while she drinks it – you can handle a little foreplay, and it will help to solidify the expected transition to sex if you are already touching her.

Oh – and whatever your views are on protection, make sure you control that part of it.  You know that your N will only manage it when it happens to fit in with her/his false image.